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  1. #11986
    Avatar von Schmolle
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    Zitat Zitat von HeMan Beitrag anzeigen
    Ja. So ist das aktuell dort. Die haben da völlig einen am Ballon.
    Die 68er waren vom selben Schlag. NIchts neues unter der Sonne.
    Protest war schon immer käuflich.

  2. #11987
    Avatar von kalotte
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    Never fight uphill, me boys!
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    Die 68er haben gegen ihre Naziväter aufbegehrt, hatten also immerhin einen guten und nachvollziehbaren Grund. Den müssen die Spinner von heute erstmal liefern.


  3. #11988
    Avatar von untersommer
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    Die 68er sind an allem Schuld. Ohne die 68er hätte Schmolle nicht mal Metalplatten hören dürfen, aber sie sind trotzdem Schuld.
    Der alte Hauptbahnhoftoilettenmann weiß genau, dass man nichts retten kann.

    You better watch what you are wishing for, or you'll wish your wishes won't come true no more

  4. #11989
    Avatar von Schmolle
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    Sie sind, da sind wir uns total einig, schuld. Ob sie gegen ihre"Nazieltern" aufbegehrten? I don know. Der APO Protest bewegte sich allerdings in ganz andere richtungen. Der Schnack "mit tausend jahren in den Talaren" der kam so nebenbei.
    Mit den 68ern habe ich ja nichts am Helm, außeer deren Oberlehrerhaften Ein- und auslassungen, die unfundierter, noch als ich es tue, so daherwabern.
    Ob metal aus der 68er Bewegung und ohne diese nie möglich gewesen wäre?
    Meet the new boss - same as the old boss oder "Teenage Wasteland its all a teenage Wasteland" nehme ich mal als Antwort.
    Sie wollten die Revolution und erfanden verkrustete Bürokratie. Und ein antizionistisches und antiisraelisches Weltbild ("ggen den kapitalismus!", und pro palästina war der "APO" wichtig) trugen sie dann vor sich umher und gaben die Protesschilder an die ihr entwachsene friedensbewegung weiter.
    jetzige Pro Palästinademonstration inklu dem was sich an der Unität da abspielt?


    ... to be concluded mo sogn.
    Protest war schon immer käuflich.

  5. #11990
    Avatar von Timbeaux
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    Ich lasse diesen Tweet mal hier. Einfach, weil er in allem Lärm, dem Leid, Krieg usw. auf allen Seiten eine hilfreiche Wärme mitbringt. Ich könnte anfangen einzelne Punkte zu sezieren, ergänzen, wie wenig realistisch Dinge vielleicht scheinen, will ich aber nicht. Mögen Menschen wie Ahmed Gehör finden, damit es sich überhaupt wieder zu sprechen lohnt.

    What being pro-Palestine means to me / my platform: I'm passionately, unequivocally, and without hesitation, a proponent of the Palestinian people’s just and urgent aspirations for self-determination, liberation, sovereignty, and safety. I grew up in Gaza, where I experienced Israeli violence and bombardment, including one incident that almost killed me and caused me permanent hearing impairment; my family is still in Gaza and has suffered dozens of deaths during this latest war; my grandparents were expelled from their ancestral homelands in 1948 and fled to the Gaza Strip; and my parents were raised in a refugee camp in Rafah during the 1950s. This background informs and influences me and speaks to why I care about the Palestinian issue and consider myself pro-Palestine. I am motivated by a sincere desire to see my people obtain their legitimate and undeniable rights, which they have not had for decades.

    Yet I, and many others, especially those who are silent or are forced to be quiet, struggle with finding a political home in today’s pro-Palestine movement. Increasingly, it feels as if pro-Palestine activism is dominated by maximalists (wanting all of historic Palestine and other zero-sum positions and approaches), slogan-driven voices, and narratives. There is a lack of pragmatic and humanistic ability to hold multiple truths at once and to advocate nuanced and color-rich positions and views that are not black-and-white depictions and understandings of the Israel and Palestine conflict.

    Here’s what, to me, an effective and meaningful pro-Palestine platform entails:

    1. Supporting the right of Palestinians to a sovereign and independent state living in peace side by side with Israel.

    2. Condemning Israeli government actions, policies, priorities, and decisions that kill, harm, undermine, or oppress the Palestinian people.

    3. Criticizing and decrying the conduct of the war in Gaza, the military occupation in the West Bank, and the Israeli government’s disregard for Palestinian civilian lives, and the destruction of property and cities.

    4. Rejecting, denouncing, and exposing the theft of Palestinian lands in the West Bank and the sprawling settlement enterprise and settler violence.

    5. Supporting highly targeted, specific, and effective sanctions against individuals, groups, and entities that are enabling the unjust and illegal occupation of the West Bank and harming Palestinian civilians.

    6. Denouncing and combating the dehumanization of the Palestinian people or the denial of their existence as people with the right to live on the land they called home for generations.

    7. Acknowledging the tragedy experienced by hundreds of thousands of displaced Palestinians from 1948 and giving them/their descendants the right to return to the lands of a future Palestinian state in the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip.

    8. Understanding past and contemporary mistakes that have set the Palestinian people back by decades and made them pawns in ideologies and geopolitical programs, agendas, and designs.

    9. Developing a pragmatic and realistic framework for recognizing Israel’s existence, right to exist, and the inevitability of its continued existence, all of which should inform how a solution is approached.

    10. Dispensing with delusional and destructive elements of the Palestinian narrative and acknowledging that there will not be a full liberation of all of Palestine, there will not be a right of return to what is now mainland Israel, and that Israel cannot and should not be confronted militarily or through any form of violence.

    11. Promoting a cultural shift away from revolutionary rhetoric, martyrdom, and armed resistance, and instead, rebranding coexistence and peace as a courageous and necessary evolution to preserve Palestinian lives, lands, and heritage and foster a new generation of nation-builders who are focused on doing the most with what the Palestinians currently have and can have in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

    12. Denouncing and rejecting antisemitism while also acknowledging that Zionists and Israelis are a diverse group/people and that the Palestinians have to work with all of these segments to have sustainable coexistence and peace.

    13. Understanding how violent/hateful rhetoric, actions, and mistakes are detrimental because they empower right-wing and extremist forces in Israel who are opposed to Palestinian rights and that persistent mistakes and incendiary rhetoric and proclamations erode support for the Palestinian people and cause.

    14. Recognizing Palestinian agency, responsibility, and accountability when taking actions that have negative consequences and outcomes and acknowledging that, while there’s an asymmetry of power dynamics, Palestinian leaders, political groups, and prominent figures should make rational and responsible choices to optimize for better prospects.

    15. Accepting that even with East Jerusalem as the capital of a future Palestinian state, access to holy sites must always be shared and open to all.

    16. Realizing how nefarious regional players like the Islamic Republic of Iran and its proxies are not sincere or helpful allies to the Palestinian people and have done so much damage to the entire region and the Palestinian cause.

    17. Developing the capacity to hear Jewish perspectives and grievances, historical and contemporary, to understand why pro-Israel supporters believe what they do and why Israel means so much to so many, even if one disagrees with those opinions and views.

    18. Understanding that Hamas recklessly endangered Palestinian lives and placed the people of Gaza in significant harm and that the group relies on Palestinian suffering as part of its strategy to delegitimize Israel globally while perpetuating the conflict without any meaningful resolution.

    19. Registering the dangers of Islamist rhetoric and ideology that seeks to Islamize Palestinian society and to turn the Palestinian national project into a religious one in pursuit of an Islamic state that, by default, will be exclusionary and incapable of accommodating diverse residents in a future Palestinian country.

    I am compelled to share the aforementioned because, for far too many people, pro-Palestine activism has been reduced to incendiary language that fails to capture the multiple moving parts of what is needed to advance the just and urgent Palestinian aspirations for freedom and independence. While many students, activists, advocates, academics, and analysts have their hearts in the right place, many cannot present viable and pragmatic ideas that are not mere rhetorical statements and empty slogans.

    I know that many strongly disagree with my views and opinions, and that’s entirely fine. Still, many more are eager to see a recalibration of pro-Palestine activism to actually help the Palestinians achieve statehood instead of inflaming division and fostering hostility towards supporters of Israel and the Jewish community. Many in Palestine are aware of the need to be pragmatic and don’t think that angry protests, BDS, antisemitism, endless academic lectures, social media activism, or “feel good” slogans will actually make a difference.

    It’s time for a rejuvenated pro-Palestine movement that serves as a big tent to encompass multiple views and opinions and to invite and promote broad alliances, especially with mainstream Jewish and Israeli communities, to work towards a just and sustainable resolution of the conflict once and for all. This is entirely attainable and achievable with humility, civility, patience, compassion and kindness, perseverance and determination, a willingness to accept reasonable compromises and accommodations, and, most importantly, the recognition of both sides’ undeniable and mutual humanity.
    https://twitter.com/afalkhatib/statu...iULm4gZAA&s=19
    Wrannjesch: "slightly ♥'ing TMBX :beer:"

  6. #11991
    Avatar von Schmolle
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    Liesst sich sehr schön. Ist schönes Wunschdenken eines anzustrebenden Ideals. Wenn ich richtig las, wird die "Regierung" und "die Behörden" der Palästiner mit keiner silbe erwähnt. Von daher ist und bleibt es dann Wunschdenken.
    Er spricht jedenfalls das wichtigste an, das beide Seiten aufeinander zugehen müssen.
    Protest war schon immer käuflich.

  7. #11992
    Avatar von Nis Randers
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    Die 68er sind an allem Schuld.
    https://youtu.be/ah3PkTzhSAI?si=Iet-BcW1LFSkg3Tq

  8. #11993
    Avatar von Schmolle
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    Zitat Zitat von Nis Randers Beitrag anzeigen
    Was ich sage. Aber gut das Grebe dies noch mal unterstreicht

  9. #11994
    Avatar von =Vince=
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    Zitat Zitat von Schmolle Beitrag anzeigen
    Liesst sich sehr schön. Ist schönes Wunschdenken eines anzustrebenden Ideals. Wenn ich richtig las, wird die "Regierung" und "die Behörden" der Palästiner mit keiner silbe erwähnt. Von daher ist und bleibt es dann Wunschdenken.
    Er spricht jedenfalls das wichtigste an, das beide Seiten aufeinander zugehen müssen.
    Komisch, dass Du das überliest - das ist ja der erste Punkt von dem sehr guten Tweet:

    1. Supporting the right of Palestinians to a sovereign and independent state living in peace side by side with Israel.
    Life isn’t, and has never been, a 2 – 0 victory against the League leaders after a fish and chips lunch. (Nick Hornby)

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